Per usual, William Saletan asks the hard questions: if abortion is murder, why is killing one of the country's handful of providers of late-term abortion not a perfectly reasonable act? His good point: few anti-abortion folks actually behave as though abortion were equivalent to murder, whatever their rhetoric.
What he skips, however, is the fact that most in the anti-abortion movement have deep respect for the rule of law, and many--particularly of the Catholic persuasion--are also invested in nonviolent means of social change. The condemnation Tiller's murder has received from the mainstream anti-abortion folks reflects political damage control, of course, but it also has the advantage of representing the actual opinions of the vast majority of people who oppose abortion. And opposing both abortion and vigilantism is hardly an inconsistent position.
Meanwhile, Van Helsing calls the murder a "big propaganda coup for the left," without providing any links as evidence. (And then this nugget: "From the point of view of our progressive ruling class, only innocent life is expendable." Interesting phrase, "innocent life." In fact, the same qualifier appears in the boilerplate language from some of the anti-abortion groups. Wonder why.)
Which is not to say that some responses from the left haven't been over the top, totalizing of abortion opponents, etc. Here's a good example. But I've been relieved to see how good of a job most of the left-leaning folks I read have done at maintaining that this is about violent, lawless extremism, and not about the anti-abortion movement itself. And the Planned Parenthood statement is exactly what it should be, given who they are--it's entirely about the man who was murdered and the work he did, which they of course support, and not about what this event says about their political opponents.
Finally, what would the aftermath of an event like this be without a strongly worded piece by Frank Schaeffer?
The prison writings of Alexei Navalny
19 hours ago
Abortion is murder.
ReplyDeleteTwo wrongs don't make a right, whatever your larger point is, Anonymous. And nothing speaks with moral clarity like anonymous commentary.
ReplyDeleteSteve, I should say -- Franky Schaeffer's shtick ("my dad was a bad bad man!") wears thin sometimes, but there are many aspects to this that make me think that his article isn't too strongly worded.
ReplyDeleteWhatever compelled an anonymous commenter to post that link in response to your post is simply beyond me -- it's despicable. It's like me going around saying pornography is wrong and linking to really hard-core pornography. Why on earth would a person do that, for Jesus Christ's sake? There's something simply bizarre at work here that has led certain opponents of abortion to justify, directly or not, everything from a lack of decency, to calumny, and to shooting people in church.
Your piece, as usual, is wise, fair, and nuanced...
Hey Steve,
ReplyDeleteI'm not sure where people get the impression pro lifers support vigilante justice and anarchy.
If that were the case, certainly us bible thumping, gun toting, torture loving Christians would be tracking down and killing abortionists all the time. This is still a pretty free country, its not for lack of opportunity. Its a myth.
When we come out against Tillers murder, its not just damage control. The pro life movement has always been about changing laws and public attitudes.
I think most anti abortion folks actually do behave as though abortion is equivilent to murder.
In my case, when confronted with abortion and murder:
Emotional response:
I'm saddened, horrified and angry.
I find it despicable that a person could rationalize both actions.
When reminded of the victims, I'm moved to tears.
Action response:
Pray for people involved.
Seek justice in our laws and courts.
We've been talking alot about torture lately and the liberals have been begging for more photos to be released. Why? We all have read about what happened at Abu Ghraib. Why do we need pictures? Because they want people to be confronted with the reality of the atrocities that occurred.
For some reason those same liberals can't stand being confronted with pictures of atrocities they want the country to ignore like 9-11 and abortion.
If "few anti-abortion folks actually behave as though abortion were equivalent to murder, whatever their rhetoric.", I think its because we're not often reminded the reality of what is happening.
ReplyDeleteEarlier this year, I was driving near the mall and a group of protesters was holding signs with pictures similar to what anonomous posted. My kids (ages 7,4,2) noticed the pictures first and asked us about them. They thought they were pictures of broken dolls. We were horrified and told them to quickly close their eyes. I was angry at the protesters. The protest was inappropriate because of the audience. Those images stuck with me for weeks though, reminding me to pray for the public to rise up against it and our leaders to make it stop.
That's a stunningly poor comparison, MikeQ. First, nobody denies that abortions occur. They are well-documented (in part, I might say, because they are regulated). Second, an aversion to the posting of those pictures is in no way evidence of any lack of opposition to abortion. Third, the idea that September 11, 2001 has anything to do with this discussion is completely illegitimate. Quit gainsaying other people's ideologies and motivations.
ReplyDeleteI was just out for a nature walk with my kids.
ReplyDeleteSurprisingly, we came across the carcass of a baby deer. I was hoping to take a break of this topic for a while, but it reminded me and made me wonder.
Which group is ACTUALLY likelier to commit acts of violence in support of their cause? Pro lifers or animal rights groups?
More irrelevant, relativistic nonsense. Every form of "argument" that you have employed on my good friend's blog has been little more than an attempt to ridicule your perceived ideological opponents in defense of a right-wing political agenda.
ReplyDeleteMike, I've read enough of your drivel to simply feel sorry for you -- you want someone to argue with, but there's no real debate to be had with you. You know you're right, and you understand yourself free to employ any rhetorical means necessary to trumpet your views. There's a masturbatory quality to your ranting about 'leftists.' If I encounter one, I'm sure I have your permission to shoot it.
But do let me take a stab at correcting your gross misinterpretation of my friend's statement that "few anti-abortion folks actually behave as though abortion were equivalent to murder, whatever their rhetoric." Since you are evidently too intellectually lazy to read Saletan's article without setting your fingers to the typewriter to defend the honor of God and country, and the value of linking to gory photographs in an effort to 'prove' anything, let me cut-and-paste one sentence:
"I challenge you to find a single [pro-life-proposed] bill that treats a woman who procures an abortion as a murderer. They don't even propose that she go to jail."
Hope that clears that one up. I'm sort of ashamed of myself for engaging with you even this politely and I probably will choose not to respond to your forthcoming sophistry. Sorry Steve, I couldn't resist one more.
Steve,
ReplyDeleteFirst let me say that the man who killed Dr. Tiller should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law.
Second, let me state that as often occurs when you post on controversial subjects, you have some truth in your post and then have links to some amazingly ridiculous articles. Saletan's article is incredibly naive at best and seriously insane at worst. If we follow his "logic", then anyone who feels murder is a crime should be taking up guns and killing people we think may have murdered someone. Or those of us who feel dealing drugs is akin to murder of those of us who have addiction problems should be willing to go to crack houses and start killing the dealers. His argument does not hold up to any degree of objective examination and I personally feel you lose credibility when you put links to this type of article on your blogs.
Honestly, if the type of late-term abortions that Dr. Tiller performed are considered heroic by Saletan, I do not know where I can find common ground with him. Partial birth abortions are not heroic; they truly are murder. As to why people like myself do not take this into my own hands and start killing doctors who perform these procedures, see the beginning of my post.
Nat,
You I find to be reprehensible. I have checked out a few of your posts at your blog and I find your arguments to be juvenile and your tone to be outrageous. When you grow up a bit and can write a somewhat fairminded article like Steve does let me know and I may be willing to read your drivel.
Phil, you seem to interpret my links as endorsements. They aren't. I post to things I think are interesting, provocative, funny, crazy, whatever. Sometimes I say what I think about them; sometimes I don't. This is quite typical of blogging, and I'm not sure why it offends you. You think Saletan's way out of line? Then post a message at Slate. I reject the implication that I shouldn't link to anything unless I either agree with all of it or explain each point with which I disagree.
ReplyDeleteIn this particular case, I DID say what I thought of part of it (which, again, does not imply that I think anything in particular of the rest of it). I highlighted this provocative question: if abortion is not just immortal but even equivalent to murder, why isn't Tiller's murder an extreme but ultimately reasonable act--a justifiable evil to prevent multiple evils each equivalent to this one? As I said in the post, the problem with this argument is that Saletan ignores the power of a respect for the rule of law and for nonviolence means--if I understand you correctly, basically the same point as your own objections. So why are they aimed at me?
The Saletan quote Nat already tried to pull us back to makes his good point better, in a way that doesn't fall into the same trap his main argument does: if abortion is murder--not some other bad thing, but literally murder--why don't antiabortion groups support the idea that women who have abortions should be prosecuted, if not as murderers then at least as accomplices to murder? (Yes, Nat made this point a bit vitriolically, though his comments are not remotely the most vitriolic we've seen on this blog. And at least he was trying to keep the thread on topic, a real challenge around here.
Sorry for hasty typos in my last comment--especially in the second paragraph, third line: IMMORAL, not IMMORTAL.
ReplyDeleteSteve,
ReplyDeleteI guess being new to blogging has its disadvantages. I am used to the idea that if there is something in a written form that refrences some other article that it implies endorsement. I have made this mistake once before and I hope to be over it. So once again I am apologizing to you for assuming you endorse things you don't. As far as Nat is concerned, he is a bit too much for me so I have learned to just stay away from his blogs. I do appreciate the stimulation to my brain you provide.
No problem, Phil. Thanks for reading and for your sharp comments.
ReplyDelete